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jonhodgson - Artists, Indie Presses and Fair Pay
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Artists, Indie Presses and Fair Pay
So there's a thread over on Story Games right now hotly discussing a number of issues regarding the "professional" status of indie games designers / publishers, and the ethics of payment to artists. A couple of people have privately asked my opinion about artist payment as I have been quite outspoken in the past on such issues.

These days I don't have a lot to say to be honest. 
I think these are matters of conscience and personal choice in what is thankfully a free market. But I'll try.  Of course anything I say is from an artists perspective. I've read plenty from publishers over at SG.

I can see at least three sides to the issue - "no one is forced to take low paid work".  This I can agree with, though I think that is a little naive to play that card too hard. Those wanting to become professional artists do of course feel a huge pressure to get into print, and would-be employers paying low do often work on that desire, using terms such as "good for the folio", and "good exposure", "name in the credits" and so on.  Its not forcing anyone, of course not, but it is deliberately pressing those pressure buttons for personal ends.  How ethical or inethical that is is again a matter for personal conscience. Having been a wide eyed kid just desperate to get into print, I think you know how I see that.  Thank goodness I woke up to the realities of the market before I became as embittered as some of the young (once) hopefuls I speak to at cons, who have been continually underpaid and underexposed by these kinds of jobs.  No one is forcing anyone. I agree. But it is rarely so simple when you are talking about what is often vocational work.

On the flip side I do think sometimes the excuse "but I'm indie so my budget is tiny" is overplayed as a reason not to pay a decent wage for someone else's labour. I don't think its wrong or wholly inaccurate. And indeed a publisher can only pay what their budget allows.  But the figures we're sometimes talking about for art budgets I could shake out of my jeans and various jamjars full of coppers round the house. If I were producing a game I might consider saving up a little?  Is that an outrageous assertion to make?  When I or others have posted similar thoughts before we've been slated.  But seriously, if I want to buy something expensive, I save up.  A couple of hundred bucks is not a lot of money for what it buys in small press art. There are often false dichotomies raised "We're not Wizards of the Coast". Sure thing - Wizards pay $800 a page.  No one is expecting that from small presses.  But a very modest $150 a page (for example)  is not an outrageous sum to ask either for skilled work.  In terms of bespoke illustration its dirt, dirt, dirt cheap.

On another flipside, I think there can be a lot of entitlement complex going on surrounding work that simply doesn't deserve any better pay. Its very tricky to deal with that.  Those who's work simply isn't good enough to sell for a working wage often lack the objectivity to see that.  And that can undermine the push for decent working conditions for artists.  Not everyone who wants to be an artist has the skill.  Not everyone who claims to offer a professional service can come up with the goods. And those people will always be used against the genuine folks.  Trust me, its all rather embarrassing when you see someone who can barely draw waving the flag and tooting the horn for "fair treatment".  Really in this long ramble, this I suppose is my core point. Much of the responsibility for how artists are treated comes to rest on our own door step.  So I certainly have no interest in debating with publishers any more.

Its a very tricky situation really, with no simple answers.

I think sections of the indie scene do their peers down when they plead poverty too hard using their size/genre as a reason.  Some indies pay a very nice wage, and are happy to do so. To make a sweeping claim that of course no indie can pay a living wage, and to ask for such means you don't understand the market and so on - well it discredits those who do pay good money for good art.  Its ironic to be asked to work for love, by those desperate not to "make a loss" - or "invest in their product" - or even "refuse to take any financial risk at all on their own product", as I could more challengingly phrase it. ( I have a wry grin here, rather than a snarl if that helps communicate the playful spirit in which I say that)

I enjoy working with small press when the opportunities arise and fit my schedule. But on the whole I have to earn my daily bread, so its not often I can do so.  But I do my best since I admire much of what is produced in the indie and small press scenes, and I don't think it hurts to support this grass roots stuff where I can, in an attempt to feed something back.  Now I think that's a situation all parties need to recognise and work around accordingly.   I don't demand my top dollar rates from small presses if I have the time and the inclination to work on a product.  Equally I don't expect to hear "entitlement bullshit" criticised by those who get very cheaply priced professional work, which is in fact subsidised by other larger publishers who do pay a living wage.

Equally there are plenty of artists who don't use their craft to earn a living, so are free to use their hobby time to work for free or very cheap. I have no great beef with that.  I would politely suggest they respect those who do make a living, and don't clog up the spaces where we "professionals" (in the sense of earning a living), self promote and gain work.  If its "just a hobby" it seems a shame to aggressively publicly undercut and/or mock those who do try to make a living wage from their art.  And remember that by working super-cheap or free, you will be held up as an example with which to bash those who expect a decent days pay for a decent day's work.  But that's very much a suggestion and no more. People need to work to their own conscience.

Something I will say about the "fair pay" situation is this - if you're not paying a professional wage (and lets call that an hourly rate suitable for moderately skilled labour, or hey, even shelf stacking if we must) then it seems most unfair to demand a fully "professional" service.  I have many times seen adverts for art jobs which play the two extremes - they have a tight specification, a tight deadline, a requirement for professional quality, and yet simultaneously demand that applicants respect the fact that the small presses never make any money, so the pay is very low.  Again with the "entitlement", hmmm?

And then you read a thread from the same publisher, whereby they list their sales and they are clearly making decent  money, and are proud of it.  Or else they are bragging about their ludicrously well-paid day job which is far too cushy to ever give up for full time work in rpgs.  They seem to quickly forget that they played the poverty card to their contractees.

In my book that's double dealing, and could be seen as somewhat dishonest. Its certainly not limited to the indie scene, and in many ways its a compliment to that scene that it disappoints me to see that happening.   I'm not naive enough to think these situations will ever change wholesale, nor are they entirely deliberately caused. Of course not. But that's my own tuppence worth of thoughts on the matter.

On a positive parting note, I very much enjoyed recent posts over at the Collective Endeavour where the goodly folks there often stress dealing with artists as you yourself would wish to be treated - paying reasonably for skilled work, paying on time, being honest and so on.  I love the fact that some of the core guys of that group - most notably Malc Craig and Gregor Hutton love games as physical artifacts, and respect the work that artists can bring to a game.  Nicely warms the cockles of my cold black heart.  I've always thought that someone must think that, somewhere out there in the small press scene.

Oh and a data point for that SG discussion, without wishing to get directly involved - I have worked for Adept Press and was paid very reasonably for what I did.  :)
Comments
scimon From: [info]scimon Date: December 3rd, 2007 11:16 am (UTC) (Link)
Here here.

I've got nothing but respect for those who have taken the time to hone their talent for art. If I ever get round to doing a game (read get of my lazy behind) I'll make sure I put aside some decent cash for the illustrations.

Holding of the breath is not recommended on that one though. At least I've started running some games again though.
jonhodgson From: [info]jonhodgson Date: December 3rd, 2007 12:08 pm (UTC) (Link)
And it does you credit! :)
scimon From: [info]scimon Date: December 3rd, 2007 12:44 pm (UTC) (Link)
And on a side note I admire anyone who can manage to be a self employed freelancer. Again if I can manage the self motivation I may get round to doing it in the new year.
rpgactionfigure From: [info]rpgactionfigure Date: December 3rd, 2007 11:40 am (UTC) (Link)
Wise words there.

I consider myself to be in a very lucky position as a writer, having Paul to look at what I write and come up with great art (or, vice versa, often come up with great art which inspires me to write something). Having an artistic partnership like that is a fantastic thing. Most people simply don't have that luxury.

If it came down to it, I would happily pay for Pauls art, were I A N Other independent publisher. It would mean having slightly less art in order to pay a fair rate for the pieces that I could afford but I would feel much better about that than not paying what the art is worth (in that case).

One thing that was mentioned in the Story Games thread was paying the artist a reasonably fair fee up front, followed by 'royalties' based on sales. I'm sure I've asked you this before and you have responded in detail, but what are your views on this method?

Cheers
Malc
jonhodgson From: [info]jonhodgson Date: December 3rd, 2007 12:07 pm (UTC) (Link)
Hi Malc, glad you commented! I thing Contest Ground is a great model to use if you don't have the readies to commission work freelance - ie: a partnership, and I think its paid you guys dividends. Sometimes I think otherwise very smart small pressers default to a work for hire, freelance model as if its the only way to do business, which is a shame. Or else, look at only that, realise its expensive, so try to get stuff for free. Partnership is a great model.


As to royalties, I think personally, to use a "proper" royalties model - that is the payment of a non-returnable advance (which is usually the projected sales for a set period), and once/if that milestone is passed, further payments are made - that model is in theory a good one. It certainly gets round the "Work for me cheap I'm indie! Hey everyone on Teh Forge, I sold 1000 copies! Go me, and I paid $10 for art!!!!" issue.

However it does cause a lot of book keeping. Given how hard it is to get your basic pay from many publishers, whether through the pursuit of a financial plan which sees them sitting on payment for as long as possible, or through disorganisation, or just plain old badness, it adds in a whole extra set of variables and trust issues which personally I would shy away from.

Personally I'll trade potential future income for a nice neat deal.

However, I would certainly consider it with the right clients - people I knew and trusted.

Outside of the "proper" royalties model - paying a royalty without advance? Nah, that's just a silent partnership in the company, with no control over how your work is being sold. A bum deal IMHO. Without any access to sales records and so on, its all a bit too dodgy for my liking. It works for some people, but increasingly I'm seeing people refusing to take on those terms, and I'm happy to see it.

Plus without advance I personally run into the problem I like to call "paying my mortgage". Sure, over a year I might make my $500 or whatever I want for a cover, but I need my pay in big, regular chunks to pay monthly expenses.

I guess if I were sufficiently capitalised to go a year without pay I could build up sufficient royalty deals to eventual live. But who has that kind of cash on hand? Certainly not me!

jonhodgson From: [info]jonhodgson Date: December 3rd, 2007 12:10 pm (UTC) (Link)
I missed an "ed" from Contested Ground. Soz and that!
open_design From: [info]open_design Date: December 3rd, 2007 08:38 pm (UTC) (Link)
As a publisher, the view is no less fraught.

I pay as well as I can, and in some cases, that's not very well. I've wound up using some public domain art when I had to, because I blew the budget on the artist I really wanted for the cover. There are tradeoffs.

Different artists are paid according to their talent, their ability to meet deadlines, and their record of accomplishment elsewhere. But I believe creative work should always be paid. I'm not running an amateur publication. I aspire to pay everyone what they deserve. How close I come is one measure of my success or failure.

The indie scene I can't comment on, as I do just OGL and d20 material. But it doesn't make me respect the scene to hear of some of the shenanigans.

At the same time, I have a day job. I *could* pay artists and writers more by running the business in the red. However, I don't think this is double-dealing at all! I keep a separate business account for Open Design, and if I ever run out of funds, I'll have to consider whether it's worth keeping the venture going with further capital from my family, by getting a loan, taking on investors. That's the business side for me: I work very hard to stay in the black AND to pay creative people as best I can.

So far, I'm happy to say, gamers have supported both the magazine and the patron projects, so I'm in no danger. While I enjoy the work (and pay myself rather poorly), it would be foolish of me to underwrite a publishing venture making indefinite losses.

Other side of the coin, is what I'm saying. I look forward to the day when I can pay WotC rates all around. :)

Edited at 2007-12-03 08:40 pm (UTC)
jonhodgson From: [info]jonhodgson Date: December 4th, 2007 08:33 am (UTC) (Link)
Heh - I have become painfully aware over the years that whenever I talk about this stuff, the people who listen, and put their side in a measured way, maybe even feel bad about it are the people who already do everything right from my perspective. And you are one of the people I most like working for Wolfgang. You and James Wallis deserve medals.

As mentioned, maybe I need to put it in bold, I don't expect anyone but WotC to pay WotC rates. But I too look forward to that day for your sake as much as mine! :):):)
jonhodgson From: [info]jonhodgson Date: December 4th, 2007 08:39 am (UTC) (Link)
Oh I also meant to add - just to clarify - I have no problem with people have good jobs, and running a seperate business. Heck I've had clients ask for extensions to the payment deadline, and then blog that they are away with their kids in Disneyland. And honestly that's cool - business is business.

What I do find double dealing is where a person practically begs for discounts, really strongly plays the poverty card, and then brags to others elsewhere that they are loaded from their day job. I probably should have made that more clear in the original post.

gryphart From: [info]gryphart Date: December 3rd, 2007 08:43 pm (UTC) (Link)
Lots of good points here.

It is indeed possible to be forced into taking low-paying work - there's a lot of jobs I took initially in my career that paid dirt, so that I could at least be making enough money to survive. There are still a few clients that I've been faithfully working for that I will probably drop completely in the next six months to a year, as my client list slowly improves, but for now I'm stuck with them. On the other hand, there are a couple of clients who I happily give deals to, because they've been with me since the beginning and have always tried to treat me considerately. On the whole, I just think it's unlikely that I'm ever going to make a good living doing RPG work, so I'm endeavoring to pull myself out into other kinds of publishing.

My general policy is this: if a company can afford to have full-time employees, and they claim they can't afford even my indie rates, something is wrong. If indie people can't even afford the basic RPG standard of $100 per page of B/W and $200 for color, they need to rethink their art needs.
jonhodgson From: [info]jonhodgson Date: December 4th, 2007 08:44 am (UTC) (Link)
Yeah, I hear you Nicolle - the sad truth really is that under such conditions the smart thing to do is just move on out of the industry, and really many of us are doing just that.

And I'm going to keep reiterating - it isn't about wanting ridiculously large sums of money. In fact its less about the money, and more about the surrounding issues.
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